"To get spiritual with Trump, we merely need to consider that he has lost his will to look at others with respect. If we love him as an enemy of our conscience, we mourn when he is sick, pray and fast for him, never assuming that he does not want to respect others. In our hearts, we can spiritually kill who he seems to think he is and love who he really is, otherwise, we really do not know who we are."
I'm sorry if it sounds mean of me but I think that this is nonsense.
* Our hearts are physical organs that pump blood around our bodies. They have no spiritual characteristic at all.
* "Love" is a word too loosely used now to mean anything.
* Who a person is, is who a person is. That someone deceives themself, voluntarily or involuntarily does not change the nature of who they are.
* If we choose to kill, 'virtually' or in actuality, then either we go against our conscience if we respect life or we don't respect life.
* To "pray" or "fast" will never and has never achieved anything for anyone. It is ritual, a human construct and nothing more.
* Spirituality is as varied as the number of people who consider it exists. There is no evidence for any such concept and it, as is the belief in a god, gods or deities, just a human construct. For those people who consider that spirituality exists, it is unique to each.
* If we want to respect Donald Trump, we can do so in as much as accepting that he is a human being with positive, negative and indifferent attributes or characteristics. We can also accept that his make-up, thought patterns, ambitions, intentions, attitudes and so on have been and are largely the result of genetic makeup, childhood influences and social conditioning - just as is true for all of us.
The reality is that Donald Trump's ideas and behaviours are predominantly destructive and dangerous and show neither simple respect nor compassion and equity towards others, with the *possible* exception of a few.
He should never have obtained a first term in office, let alone a second term and his behaviour and edicts need to be stopped and him removed from office as soon as practicable or he will do more harm and destroy the lives of many, many people.
No "spirituality", nor "prayer", nor homage to a mythical creator, nor omnipotent entity, nor banal ritual will rectify the damage he has already done and the damage he will continue to do as long as he is not prevented from it.
It doesn’t sound mean, Roger. It sounds honest and I appreciate that. We are a generation that has been schooled in critical thinking, seeing everything as relative to our view. That is fine for scientific research, but out of bounds for our human experience. We alone are conscientiously aware that we have conscientious awareness. That is an absolute regardless of how we view life with our awareness. Our inner experience has no similarities in this world. So by using words like “heart” to symbolize feelings we have is a way of communicating that reality. Would you agree?
I know Shalini, it is painful to look at. But tomorrow you will see it all over again and before you know it, you will have lost the spiritual battle, then this world. Each day you get weaker by bearing such pain in your eyes because the eyes of your heart are not saving you.
The thing is that Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Putin, and all other leaders who are hurting people, they are all power obsessed. How can we love somebody who is hurting other people like us just because Jesus said so? We can forgive them if they repent of their sins, but how can we love them? It’s just humanly impossible.
A 11 year old girl died in Texas recently because she was bullied at school that her parents were here illegally. How can you love Trump after hearing that George?
First of all, we should consider the possibility of something greater in all of us. Just because we can’t do something now doesn’t mean we won’t be able to do it tomorrow. Some people in history have done it, so we must all be capable of doing it. Some say it is only by an act of God. We are certainly not gods. But others believe we can be transformed by the renewing of our minds. By renewing our mind with things we never knew before, we will see things differently and loving people who are blind and doing horrible things can have a whole new meaning.
We always say, Never Again, when history destroys so many, but does that change anything? No, hating others has always made us weak. Being tolerant of others also makes us weak. But loving all others gives us the strength to understand what is happening beyond the appearances that fool us so easily.
And if we are not fooled, we have the best chance of helping those who are.
When Jesus says, love your enemies, that does not exclude anyone. It’s good to hate what they do, but only if it’s because we love them. If we hate them and what they do, we only poison our own heart.
Now I got you: “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Matthew 5:46-48 NIV
Is this what you were trying to convey?
Is there n instance in the Bible of loving somebody like Herod for instance who has hurt so many people? Do you know? Please do not mention David, that doesn’t count.
Yes, but many people are not interested in the Bible because of all the hypocrisy. Jesus even said that if we do not believe in him, at least believe in his works. Loving his enemies was the reason for all his works. So it is ok if we teach others about loving the enemies of their conscience without implying that they first must believe in Jesus.
We have our whole lifetime to think about love. We are created in love and we are love. So our thoughts want to move in that direction. We can still choose not to want to love or just love the ones who love us. We all have the same choice.
Yes, if God hated any of us, he would have to hate himself since he made us in his own image. We forget how expensive it is to have free will in this world. We have the ability to hurt each other, but if you step back and look at the big picture, we’re all going to die and leave this world anymore. So if we are made to leave it early, as tragic as that is, and we should do everything to help each other live out our time, nothing has changed. This world ends with death, but the next one is a different kind of life, wouldn’t you agree?
I think by the very statement you are making it feels forced, like having to drink poison in order to save your child. Yeah you can try but it won’t go deep
George, if you appreciate the sincere comment, why are dissect our difference of opinion and go off track? Knowing that I should love my neighbour and choosing not to is my freedom. You have your feelings and perspectives and I have mine. Now, I wouldn't have popped my head over here if you hadn't asked for feedback because I stay out of current spaces.
I believe it is faith, that's my belief, but since we are imperfect humans and not like Christ, openly loving/accepting (to love means acceptance) a person who has wronged so many families, friends and innocents is asking a lot as you rightly said: "it is a hard thing to do for Christians." I can wish no hate against someone while not loving them either. I hope you can understand people have a right to choose and grant them the grace to work it out with God.
That is my right to choose also, Latoya. I choose to love you in Christ, and that includes trying to help you, persuade you, to see what I see as good for you. Forgive me if I was too straightforward, an imperfect human.
I see your zeal and we've both made our choices. I stand assured in my own connection and journey with God. I serve him, not humans. You are forgiven. #JahBless
George, your text is perfect in a sense that it correctly describes and explains the human condition. What amazes me however is the inability of some people to understand the concept of God’s will and consequently the human nature. Thank you!
The pleasure’s mine, I assure you. Your writing is deeply morally correct, and in-depth biblically, what I appreciate most. I do hope that we can continue our conversation in the time ahead.
I appreciate the biblical reference and the call to love one’s enemy. I am spiritual and believe in faith, prayer, and God—my best friend and confidant in all things. However, while politics is not my area of expertise, from what little I know, observe, and read, it is difficult to accept the tyranny of a grown man-child with a white supremacy complex.
What I do appreciate about your essay are the stories I didn’t know. For example, I didn’t know that David’s son was named Absalom, though I recall that name from a movie. I found some interesting facts in this piece, but for me, that’s all I can take away—no offence intended
Thank you for your sincere comment. I am not suggesting that we "accept the tyranny", as you put it, of the President, but rather that we follow the teaching of Christ to love our enemies. And that is the challenge for Christians, to deal with strong feelings of dislike and the teaching to love him at the same time.
It is not a matter of faith, for if it were, I am sure that you would already know how to love your enemies with the strong faith you probably have. This is knowledge of the truth, as Paul called it, the truth that sets us free, that renews our mind and transforms us. Too often, we study knowledge in college with critical thinking, but think that if words about Jesus's teaching are not simple, they cannot be true.
Peter said that some of the things that Paul taught are difficult to understand and that the untaught and unstable twist them. He did not say they were not true. I encourage you to invest some of your intellect in the love of God--to love God with all of your mind too.
"To get spiritual with Trump, we merely need to consider that he has lost his will to look at others with respect. If we love him as an enemy of our conscience, we mourn when he is sick, pray and fast for him, never assuming that he does not want to respect others. In our hearts, we can spiritually kill who he seems to think he is and love who he really is, otherwise, we really do not know who we are."
I'm sorry if it sounds mean of me but I think that this is nonsense.
* Our hearts are physical organs that pump blood around our bodies. They have no spiritual characteristic at all.
* "Love" is a word too loosely used now to mean anything.
* Who a person is, is who a person is. That someone deceives themself, voluntarily or involuntarily does not change the nature of who they are.
* If we choose to kill, 'virtually' or in actuality, then either we go against our conscience if we respect life or we don't respect life.
* To "pray" or "fast" will never and has never achieved anything for anyone. It is ritual, a human construct and nothing more.
* Spirituality is as varied as the number of people who consider it exists. There is no evidence for any such concept and it, as is the belief in a god, gods or deities, just a human construct. For those people who consider that spirituality exists, it is unique to each.
* If we want to respect Donald Trump, we can do so in as much as accepting that he is a human being with positive, negative and indifferent attributes or characteristics. We can also accept that his make-up, thought patterns, ambitions, intentions, attitudes and so on have been and are largely the result of genetic makeup, childhood influences and social conditioning - just as is true for all of us.
The reality is that Donald Trump's ideas and behaviours are predominantly destructive and dangerous and show neither simple respect nor compassion and equity towards others, with the *possible* exception of a few.
He should never have obtained a first term in office, let alone a second term and his behaviour and edicts need to be stopped and him removed from office as soon as practicable or he will do more harm and destroy the lives of many, many people.
No "spirituality", nor "prayer", nor homage to a mythical creator, nor omnipotent entity, nor banal ritual will rectify the damage he has already done and the damage he will continue to do as long as he is not prevented from it.
It doesn’t sound mean, Roger. It sounds honest and I appreciate that. We are a generation that has been schooled in critical thinking, seeing everything as relative to our view. That is fine for scientific research, but out of bounds for our human experience. We alone are conscientiously aware that we have conscientious awareness. That is an absolute regardless of how we view life with our awareness. Our inner experience has no similarities in this world. So by using words like “heart” to symbolize feelings we have is a way of communicating that reality. Would you agree?
This is still hard for me to understand George
Ok, then let me ask you this question: If your life or the life of someone you love depended on loving someone you hate, could you love them?
Sorry George, mind tries to understand but the heart is too hurt to look beyond what’s right before the eyes!
I know Shalini, it is painful to look at. But tomorrow you will see it all over again and before you know it, you will have lost the spiritual battle, then this world. Each day you get weaker by bearing such pain in your eyes because the eyes of your heart are not saving you.
The thing is that Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Putin, and all other leaders who are hurting people, they are all power obsessed. How can we love somebody who is hurting other people like us just because Jesus said so? We can forgive them if they repent of their sins, but how can we love them? It’s just humanly impossible.
A 11 year old girl died in Texas recently because she was bullied at school that her parents were here illegally. How can you love Trump after hearing that George?
First of all, we should consider the possibility of something greater in all of us. Just because we can’t do something now doesn’t mean we won’t be able to do it tomorrow. Some people in history have done it, so we must all be capable of doing it. Some say it is only by an act of God. We are certainly not gods. But others believe we can be transformed by the renewing of our minds. By renewing our mind with things we never knew before, we will see things differently and loving people who are blind and doing horrible things can have a whole new meaning.
We always say, Never Again, when history destroys so many, but does that change anything? No, hating others has always made us weak. Being tolerant of others also makes us weak. But loving all others gives us the strength to understand what is happening beyond the appearances that fool us so easily.
And if we are not fooled, we have the best chance of helping those who are.
He spoke about ordinary people who we end up hating, not those who are on a killing spree or bringing division to a whole country
He didn’t say only love common enemies. We have the least chance of resisting them when our heart is poisoned.
I understand what you are saying but Jesus never said to love Herod George
When Jesus says, love your enemies, that does not exclude anyone. It’s good to hate what they do, but only if it’s because we love them. If we hate them and what they do, we only poison our own heart.
Now I got you: “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Matthew 5:46-48 NIV
Is this what you were trying to convey?
Is there n instance in the Bible of loving somebody like Herod for instance who has hurt so many people? Do you know? Please do not mention David, that doesn’t count.
Yes, but many people are not interested in the Bible because of all the hypocrisy. Jesus even said that if we do not believe in him, at least believe in his works. Loving his enemies was the reason for all his works. So it is ok if we teach others about loving the enemies of their conscience without implying that they first must believe in Jesus.
George you lost me again
We have our whole lifetime to think about love. We are created in love and we are love. So our thoughts want to move in that direction. We can still choose not to want to love or just love the ones who love us. We all have the same choice.
Are you suggesting that God loves Trump? Did God love Hitler? Or Mussolini? Or Saddam Hussein?
Yes, if God hated any of us, he would have to hate himself since he made us in his own image. We forget how expensive it is to have free will in this world. We have the ability to hurt each other, but if you step back and look at the big picture, we’re all going to die and leave this world anymore. So if we are made to leave it early, as tragic as that is, and we should do everything to help each other live out our time, nothing has changed. This world ends with death, but the next one is a different kind of life, wouldn’t you agree?
I think by the very statement you are making it feels forced, like having to drink poison in order to save your child. Yeah you can try but it won’t go deep
Would it be forced if you were blind and suddenly could see God in Trump and God loving Trump the same as he loves you?
I don’t think we can be forced to love somebody we hate. Love has to come on its own
Yes, love is not forced, but if you were able to learn how to start by choice on a deeper level in order to save those you love, would you try?
George, if you appreciate the sincere comment, why are dissect our difference of opinion and go off track? Knowing that I should love my neighbour and choosing not to is my freedom. You have your feelings and perspectives and I have mine. Now, I wouldn't have popped my head over here if you hadn't asked for feedback because I stay out of current spaces.
I believe it is faith, that's my belief, but since we are imperfect humans and not like Christ, openly loving/accepting (to love means acceptance) a person who has wronged so many families, friends and innocents is asking a lot as you rightly said: "it is a hard thing to do for Christians." I can wish no hate against someone while not loving them either. I hope you can understand people have a right to choose and grant them the grace to work it out with God.
That is my right to choose also, Latoya. I choose to love you in Christ, and that includes trying to help you, persuade you, to see what I see as good for you. Forgive me if I was too straightforward, an imperfect human.
I see your zeal and we've both made our choices. I stand assured in my own connection and journey with God. I serve him, not humans. You are forgiven. #JahBless
Thank you. That is whom I serve and pray you do too.
George, your text is perfect in a sense that it correctly describes and explains the human condition. What amazes me however is the inability of some people to understand the concept of God’s will and consequently the human nature. Thank you!
Thank you, Marcin, and point well taken.
The pleasure’s mine, I assure you. Your writing is deeply morally correct, and in-depth biblically, what I appreciate most. I do hope that we can continue our conversation in the time ahead.
I look forward to it !
Will do!
I appreciate the biblical reference and the call to love one’s enemy. I am spiritual and believe in faith, prayer, and God—my best friend and confidant in all things. However, while politics is not my area of expertise, from what little I know, observe, and read, it is difficult to accept the tyranny of a grown man-child with a white supremacy complex.
What I do appreciate about your essay are the stories I didn’t know. For example, I didn’t know that David’s son was named Absalom, though I recall that name from a movie. I found some interesting facts in this piece, but for me, that’s all I can take away—no offence intended
Thank you for your sincere comment. I am not suggesting that we "accept the tyranny", as you put it, of the President, but rather that we follow the teaching of Christ to love our enemies. And that is the challenge for Christians, to deal with strong feelings of dislike and the teaching to love him at the same time.
It is not a matter of faith, for if it were, I am sure that you would already know how to love your enemies with the strong faith you probably have. This is knowledge of the truth, as Paul called it, the truth that sets us free, that renews our mind and transforms us. Too often, we study knowledge in college with critical thinking, but think that if words about Jesus's teaching are not simple, they cannot be true.
Peter said that some of the things that Paul taught are difficult to understand and that the untaught and unstable twist them. He did not say they were not true. I encourage you to invest some of your intellect in the love of God--to love God with all of your mind too.